http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ A visual art renaissance. en-US Sat, 04 Feb 2012 15:57:52 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/search.php http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/art-vs-craft#post-169 Sat, 04 Feb 2012 10:53:12 +0000 dB 169@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ He who works with his hands is a laborer. He who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman. He who works with his hands and his head and his heart is an artist.<br /> <br /> generally attributed to St. Francis of Assisi<br /> This quote was used by Louis Nizer, and published in his book, Between You and Me (1948) http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/intersections-1#post-150 Tue, 27 Sep 2011 09:51:15 +0000 dB 150@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ Amen to that. I think this is where we have to press into each other to find what benefit community brings to our sanctification and growth. We must do this intentionally. Finding a community on mission is hard enough, but then to prioritize it into our self centered lifestyles takes work. http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/intersections-1#post-147 Mon, 26 Sep 2011 11:42:53 +0000 sgovatos 147@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ That's a good question, Matt! Events are a great way of making connections, but it is the intentional (there's that word again) nurturing of those relationships that is one way that the relationships grow. That, to me, can be the hard part because it means laying aside my artwork agenda sometimes to find out what others, or a specific someone, is doing, and where they need encouragement or direction. It could also mean taking the time to listen and including that person in your thoughts and plans. Yes, the LORD transforms the artist's heart, but he often uses our personal relationships with each other. http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/seeking-community#post-146 Fri, 09 Sep 2011 07:16:37 +0000 Matt2theG 146@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ Let me extend your point a wee bit further.<br /> <br /> "I think that as a [purely] academic exercise religion cannot be known in truth."<br /> <br /> Every one has a religion. Intentional or unintentional - our religions are a set of guiding practices and principles which gives our worldview a center and an outside edge.<br /> <br /> Here's Astrid's youtube video.<br /> <br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQKH8gASKqk" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQKH8gASKqk</a> http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/seeking-community#post-145 Wed, 07 Sep 2011 13:30:28 +0000 dB 145@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ I think that as an academic exercise, true religion cannot be understood. It is a matter of one's whole being. Mind AND heart, body, and soul (whether you believe in one or not...) http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/seeking-community#post-144 Wed, 07 Sep 2011 13:29:06 +0000 dB 144@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ I couldn't find the specific video Astrid posted. could you post the direct link? http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/seeking-community#post-142 Sat, 03 Sep 2011 22:55:06 +0000 Matt2theG 142@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ I don't you're reading too much into it. She most definitely is "hard"... at least as it relates to being a skeptic. But I think she disbelieves just about everything as a skeptic. I just found her search for connectedness heartrending. That she is still searching. http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/seeking-community#post-141 Fri, 02 Sep 2011 11:55:27 +0000 visualtranslator 141@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ I watched the video but haven't gone to her blog. At first I felt some disappointment with her experience at church but found it impressive that at 6yrs. old she held such strong rejection to Christian faith. Wondered if she is now speaking to an accumulation of experiences that she has added to that first encounter. As I continued to listen to her, I sensed a hardness and intellectual arrogance that seems would be difficult to even get an audience with her now. Perhaps it would only be authentic friendship that would draw her to faith which is what I think you are commenting on. To me prayer is the only way to begin cracking the hard shell she has surrounded herself with. Did I read too much into this? Did you sense any soft edge that would entertain interaction with her as a Christian? http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/intersections-1#post-140 Thu, 01 Sep 2011 07:20:13 +0000 Matt2theG 140@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ Maybe there are others who have insight into connecting with artists on a one-to-one level. The events are a great way to expose people to the possibility of connecting or community but how are those relationships realized? http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/seeking-community#post-139 Thu, 01 Sep 2011 07:02:17 +0000 Matt2theG 139@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ I watched Astrid's youtube video a couple of times and went to her post at:<br /> <br /> <a href="http://skepticfreethought.com/2011/08/outer-space-to-inner-space/#disqus_thread" rel="nofollow">http://skepticfreethought.com/2011/08/outer-space-to-inner-space/#disqus_thread</a><br /> <br /> and left a comment of my own. I think my initial reaction to Astrid's comments was one of embarrassment for the church. Almost a, "Yeah, been there, done that." response. But after listening a second time and reading her blog post I thought, "Aren't all religions, even atheism, exclusive?" I mean all belief systems have exclusive claims, rites and rituals - the things that make the adherents... well. Adherents. Who knows if there were people along the way that tried to explain the "whys" or "hows" of religion.<br /> <br /> It is ultimately sad that she has invested so much time into study and still admits that she has not found the reason for faith.<br /> <br /> Thoughts? http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/seedlings-and-limnerings#post-138 Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:39:30 +0000 visualtranslator 138@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ Oh, yes, I heard that story second-hand. Similar opportunity at Art of Enduring when Kit Engel had the chance to talk about the art hanging for our show when someone from France came in and she was able to converse about the art and her faith. http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/seedlings-and-limnerings#post-137 Wed, 24 Aug 2011 07:49:43 +0000 Matt2theG 137@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ Phyllis - I heard that while they were setting up for the show a girl walked in and asked what they were doing. She struck up a conversation with one of the artist. During the conversation she described herself as an atheist. Before she had left she had made a decision to follow Christ. http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/seedlings-and-limnerings#post-136 Wed, 24 Aug 2011 07:32:21 +0000 visualtranslator 136@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ Hi all. I'm jumping in on this conversation because Matt asked me to share about last week's Third Thursday Evoke 365 event at City Arts Factory in Orlando. It brought back LOTS of memories of two years ago when you Limner's joined AWE for our A of E event in the same venue!<br /> <br /> Anyway, this year's event that Scott Howe and his artists organized was a perfect example of art and faith entering into the Orlando community in a non-threatening, intentional manner. There were 10 faith artists who painted one painting a day for a year. Those 1,500 or so paintings (6" x 6") were displayed all over the walls in CAF proclaiming the artists' faith in Jesus.<br /> <br /> The venue was full of people viewing images that were painted by artists who took on the discipline and challenge of painting a daily visual journey about what God was doing in their lives day to day.<br /> <br /> As I talked with the artists, they mentioned it was not only the viewers, but the artists themselves who benefited from this commitment. They worked together as a team, fasted and prayed and kept connecting regularly in fellowship. They shared lessons learned and how important it is to do their work in the power of the Holy Spirit. They also planned outreaches in the community some of which included plein air painting and giving the images to passers-by who stopped to watch and engaged in conversation about the image.<br /> <br /> They also had planned a Pine Street performance celebration but rain hampered this activity. Matt, Susan and I did not stay for the whole evening but a friend at church who was one of the musicians said the rain stopped later and they were able to drum and praise God on Pine Street in the middle of O-Town!<br /> <br /> I observed many people viewing the images but do not know how many of them were believers or if they were "off the street" viewers just curious about the show. I don't have any record of how "effective" the event was in terms of evangelism, but I do know Scott is passionate about his faith and about proclaiming Christ to the world. I hope to hear some of his stories eventually and know how he feels the LORD worked in this event.<br /> <br /> As a personal observation, I feel it was an event that brought honor to the LORD by showing the work of creative hands that God blessed. If there was any desire for "numbers" or accounting of how many were touched by the images enough to seek out a follower of Christ and want to pursue salvation, I don't know. However, I feel that is for the LORD to continue His work in the lives and hearts of those who attended.<br /> <br /> So perhaps an event like this is not only for others but the artists themselves to walk more deeply with the LORD and listen more intently to His voice. And if it transforms the artist then it is worthwhile http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/seedlings-and-limnerings#post-135 Tue, 23 Aug 2011 23:44:14 +0000 jakelimner 135@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ Hello Limners, I'm in a very different situation than all of you - but don't let it rain on this Limner parade. God knows. Presently, I don't know any 'artists' in this country. Zero. I'm slowly learning the language and will pray that God reveals where to cast. http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/intersections-1#post-134 Tue, 23 Aug 2011 22:06:51 +0000 visualtranslator 134@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ I don't know if this is where I'm supposed to post, but it seems it is addressing the Art and Faith forum; the integration of Christian faith and visual art. Matt asked me to share about last week's Third Thursday Evoke 365 event at City Arts Factory in Orlando. It brought back LOTS of memories of two years ago when you Limner's joined AWE for our A of E event in the same venue! <br /> <br /> Anyway, this year's event that Scott Howe and his artists organized was a perfect example of art and faith entering into the Orlando community in a non-threatening, intentional manner. There were 10 faith artists who painted one painting a day for a year. Those 1,500 or so paintings (6" x 6") were displayed all over the walls in CAF proclaiming the artists' faith in Jesus. <br /> <br /> The venue was full of people viewing images that were painted by artists who took on the discipline and challenge of painting a daily visual journey about what God was doing in their lives day to day. <br /> <br /> As I talked with the artists, they mentioned it was not only the viewers, but the artists themselves who benefited from this commitment. They worked together as a team, fasted and prayed and kept connecting regularly in fellowship. They shared lessons learned and how important it is to do their work in the power of the Holy Spirit. They also planned outreaches in the community some of which included plein air painting and giving the images to passers-by who stopped to watch and engaged in conversation about the image.<br /> <br /> They also had planned a Pine Street performance celebration but rain hampered this activity. Matt, Susan and I did not stay for the whole evening but a friend at church who was one of the musicians said the rain stopped later and they were able to drum and praise God on Pine Street in the middle of O-Town!<br /> <br /> I observed many people viewing the images but do not know how many of them were believers or if they were "off the street" viewers just curious about the show. I don't have any record of how "effective" the event was in terms of evangelism, but I do know Scott is passionate about his faith and about proclaiming Christ to the world. I hope to hear some of his stories eventually and know how he feels the LORD worked in this event.<br /> <br /> As a personal observation, I feel it was an event that brought honor to the LORD by showing the work of creative hands that God blessed. If there was any desire for "numbers" or accounting of how many were touched by the images enough to seek out a follower of Christ and want to pursue salvation, I don't know. However, I feel that is for the LORD to continue His work in the lives and hearts of those who attended.<br /> <br /> So perhaps an event like this is not only for others but the artists themselves to walk more deeply with the LORD and listen more intently to His voice. And if it transforms the artist then it is worthwhile! http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/seedlings-and-limnerings#post-133 Tue, 23 Aug 2011 22:01:11 +0000 dB 133@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ I was challenged to do this before issuing the challenge Limner-wide, so I got a head start...<br /> I have been meeting with artists of faith every third Thursday to break bread, discuss life and pray. We have a small group, Abraham Storer, Eddie Rochat, Eric Helvie and myself. We watched two segments of Colin Harbinson's DVD and discussed, mostly we chat and pray. We have begun to intentionally pray for the art world and for specific folks we encounter in our spheres who are on our hearts. We hope to have a painting getaway in September/October north of the city at my friend John's church/house to just fellowship.<br /> <br /> My hope is that Bennett, John and possibly Rob will join in soon, but for now I am enjoying getting to know these fellows... http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/seedlings-and-limnerings#post-132 Tue, 23 Aug 2011 14:47:37 +0000 Matt2theG 132@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ Here's a place to share what has been happening in response to the SEED initiative or what has been happening where you have been Limnering...<br /> <br /> <br /> I'm excited about daniel's invitation to get us thinking more Limner-esque. I am a relative new-bee to Limner and this initiative has been a boost to thinking more intentionally about my personal walk, my relationships and my artwork.<br /> <br /> It was also an honor to take part in the discussion concerning tLS' mission statement which gets to the point of what it means to be a Limner.<br /> <br /> I wanted to share a little story about my recent "Limnerings".<br /> <br /> This past spring I hosted an event I hosted an art gallery in Chicago. In retrospect, the event reflected the Limner heart. The purpose was to bring artists together of a similar passion to open a dialogue on how to live out this mission statement in their lives.<br /> <br /> That evening I met "Andrew" who is a very intelligent and creative guy. One of those true hybrids who can travel between both hemispheres of their brain with ease. Anyway, during our conversation I picked up on some hints that he may profit from a continued conversation. Since then we have scheduled a regular phone call to discuss intentional topics in his growth as an artist and a believer. I can't tell you how fun those calls are. For those of you who know me I am not naturally gregarious and I find it difficult to do the small talk thing. I'm glad that the Lord gave me the courage to pursue this connection with Andrew. I have been blessed by it and I think he has as well.<br /> <br /> I'd really appreciate hearing from all of you on whatever Limnerings you have been experiencing. I think it is important for us to share these "testimonials" with each other. I know I often I don't think the incidentals would be very interesting for others. I know I'd like to get to know the Limner's better ... what better way then sharing stories of being Limners???<br /> <br /> I know Steffan musty have some crazy stories!!!<br /> <br /> <br /> Matt Guilford http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/what-does-evangelism-and-discipleship-look-like-in-the-arts#post-131 Tue, 23 Aug 2011 14:19:02 +0000 Matt2theG 131@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ Perhaps the question might be better posed as follows:<br /> <br /> "What are the particular obstacles and opportunities we face in sharing our faith with artists and helping them grow in their faith?"<br /> <br /> This takes the emphasis off of the person/profession dilemma. <br /> <br /> I think the distinction of a charge being given to the church is a bit of a chicken and egg issue. Since the church is us and we are the church. The question does not infer an activity outside of the church. However, it does infer that The Church is not taking the charge very seriously.<br /> <br /> Maybe we could turn the discussion toward the redefined question. http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/encouragement-1#post-129 Thu, 18 Aug 2011 08:27:24 +0000 dB 129@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms. <br /> (1 Peter 4:10) http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/what-does-evangelism-and-discipleship-look-like-in-the-arts#post-107 Tue, 09 Aug 2011 00:00:19 +0000 jakelimner 107@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ I think we must rework this question to address the person rather than the profession and remember God's commission to the church. <br /> <br /> It makes sense to me to ask how to best evangelize and disciple artists. It is about the person not the profession. How do we share God's truth with artists? How do we help artists learn about God and have a better understanding of who he is? <br /> <br /> Finally, I'd like to make the point that evangelism and discipleship is a charge given to the church. We serve the church by fulfilling the commission to 'go and make disciples' in the unique settings where God has placed us. <br /> <br /> tLS can serve the church by equipping / edifying (read: instructing intellectually) artists of Christian faith so that they can better serve the church in it's mission to evangelize and disciple people (specifically artists). http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/what-does-evangelism-and-discipleship-look-like-in-the-arts#post-105 Mon, 08 Aug 2011 10:34:57 +0000 dB 105@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ you guys are having too much fun... <br /> <br /> I think it is important to note the lines and necessary partnerships that make things possible to have evangelism and discipleship in the arts.<br /> <br /> First, there is a line between the person and the occupation. In this sense, all occupations are the same. Work as if you are working for the Lord, and share the gospel in your particular sphere of influence. However, we are made and/or endowed with distinct gifts and must partner that with the outworking of our faith.<br /> <br /> Second, art is not pipes, or bees, or cars, etc. It is an undertaking that explores ways of thinking. It is more kin to fiction writing, philosophy, theology, and the like. In this sense we must understand what God's intention for this is and how it benefits his Kingdom.<br /> <br /> Third, the outworking of this will look different for different people. Just as there are people serving the Gospel in many capacities in other ways. The artists will have diverse ways of working out their specific calling.<br /> <br /> I think that we should think about what it means to evangelize and disciple people in the context we have been placed, whatever context that may be. If nothing else this is a good reason to have tLS. However biased it may sound, I believe that God uses certain occupations/giftings to speak to the heart and mind of men. I think art is one of those and thus makes it important to focus on.<br /> <br /> I am becoming long winded and will cut it short for now... http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/techniques-1#post-103 Mon, 08 Aug 2011 01:03:07 +0000 jakelimner 103@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ Matt - Thanks for the links! I'd love to see how lino is going for you. <br /> <br /> I think we need to answer a few questions about what tLS' mission is before putting a discussion about techniques on our blog or having one elsewhere under the banner of tLS. <br /> <br /> Here's my line of thinking... <br /> <br /> QUESTION: Is the professional development of artists part of our mission to reach the tLS vision? <br /> <br /> YES: Then let's talk about the best way to teach and share techniques. (Personally, I find that a blog is good for getting ideas but I don't learn techniques well online and would prefer a face to face demonstration.) <br /> <br /> NO: Then let's drop any talk of a blog or meeting for this purpose. It's good to learn but it simply doesn't fit under the mission for tLS and belongs elsewhere. tLS needs to keep it simple and specific to our mission. Go elsewhere to learn techniques. http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/what-does-evangelism-and-discipleship-look-like-in-the-arts#post-102 Mon, 08 Aug 2011 00:00:05 +0000 jakelimner 102@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ Here's a different way of looking at it: <br /> <br /> How do visual artists serve the church with their gifts to further God's kingdom through evangelism and discipleship? <br /> <br /> (Assumption: Jesus Christ has charged the church with evangelism and discipleship and we are part of the body wherever and whatever our profession.) http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/what-does-evangelism-and-discipleship-look-like-in-the-arts#post-101 Sun, 07 Aug 2011 17:38:48 +0000 jakelimner 101@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ Have we over-hyped the Arts and the visual artist with these questions? <br /> <br /> It is one thing to ask what Discipleship and Evangelism look like in Brazil among the Yanamamo or in a Thai church but why the Arts? <br /> <br /> Do Christians in the UAW ask each other these questions? Should they? What about Christian bee keepers, airline pilots, or stand-up comedians? Should they seek to understand Discipleship and Evangelism in their professions? <br /> <br /> In general, we know to love people where God has placed us and 'make disciples'. We can offer the one things that the world cannot offer - grace.<br /> <br /> But what specific answers are we looking for to describe Evangelism and Discipleship in the Arts? What if Evangelism and Discipleship look similar for both the Arts and bee keeping? http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/techniques-1#post-97 Sat, 06 Aug 2011 10:08:27 +0000 Matt2theG 97@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ Jake - I agree that these are valid questions. Could discussions about techniques be held on the Blog? It's interesting that you mentioned linocut on our Skype call the other night. I have recently started doing some and it is a lot of fun. Can be very tedious for sure.<br /> <br /> Check this links out:<br /> <a href="http://linocutboy.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://linocutboy.blogspot.com/</a><br /> <a href="http://www.rachelnewling.com.au/" rel="nofollow">http://www.rachelnewling.com.au/</a> http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/what-does-evangelism-and-discipleship-look-like-in-the-arts#post-96 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 22:30:18 +0000 Matt2theG 96@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ Thanks for your thoughts Jake. Good points all. As daniel and I have been talking and turning the this question around and around it seems that we might just be making things too difficult. I think evangelism and discipleship is and is not so directly linked to art. If it is connected to art then it runs the risk of being didactic. If it is not it is associated with the artist... who they are not what they do. <br /> <br /> The word that keeps coming back to me is "consider". It seems to me that, across all disciplines, that consideration is the key for evangelism and discipleship (it is too bad that the surrounding culture has had its way with two perfectly good words! But, I digress). If the artist is to "consider" their sphere of influence from the perspective of being a follower of Christ that would make them a person on mission within the arts empowered by the Holy Spirit to have the discernment for the WWWW&H of creating work, interacting with people, being direct with witness, being subversive with witness, being literal with theme, being obscure with theme. <br /> <br /> I do realize that the arts do present a significant tension toward the outworking of our faith. However, I wonder if we think of being artists of faith or faithful artists? Where is the emphasis? I think when we set so many parameters on what is central to our faith we almost preclude it from happening. I wonder if we opened this discussion up to others if there would be a half dozen reasons why people (regardless of being artists) don't talk to others about Christ.<br /> <br /> Anyway... before I ramble on too far... What does the forum think? http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/techniques-1#post-95 Tue, 02 Aug 2011 02:12:23 +0000 jakelimner 95@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ IS this even a deliverable service from tLS? <br /> Should tLS make space for Limners to ask this of one another? <br /> <br /> These are valid questions! We must refer to our mission and fundamental goals to know the answer. (Stay tuned, since the mission is under revision.)<br /> <br /> I do know that each of us is responsible to invest the talents God has given us. And we can all check youtube to learn how to do encaustic techniques, wet on wet watercolor washes, etc...<br /> <br /> (Although as they say, "You can't learn Karate from a book.") http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/what-does-evangelism-and-discipleship-look-like-in-the-arts#post-94 Tue, 02 Aug 2011 01:29:17 +0000 jakelimner 94@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ Good idea! But 'Oy Vey' tis a huge topic. Evangelism and Discipleship have different targets and understandings. It might be helpful to look at each one separately. <br /> <br /> Within the arts, I believe that evangelism would start well to use the visual arts as God created them. Let's portray beauty and truth. Is your work informed by God's truth about who you are? Who God is? Truth in the visual arts will point to our creator because all truth is God's truth. Let's see how God directs our work and brings fruit as we stay connected to Jesus. <br /> <br /> Discipleship within the visual arts must allude to the discipleship of artists. Sadly, today I think this means that we connect the dots for artists to see how God loves the visual arts. This is where tLS could show the role artists play in the church and encourage artists to use the talents that God has given for his Kingdom (as opposed to burying them in the ground or something worse.)<br /> <br /> I have a lot to learn but these are a few of my thoughts to keep the ball rolling. http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/what-does-evangelism-and-discipleship-look-like-in-the-arts#post-92 Sun, 31 Jul 2011 16:18:49 +0000 Matt2theG 92@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ Let's generate a discussion thread about this topic? It is something that I have been focused on now for the past five years. I feel like I have made very little headway and it would be nice to get some real strong opinion and insight into this area. My integration point is that we, as followers of Christ, have been given a ministry of reconciliation (II Corinthians 5:11-21). This ministry should never be seen as one dimensional and lacking in concern for people, relations and the faithful stewardship of our artistic talents.<br /> <br /> Thoughts?<br /> <br /> Matt http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/intersections-1#post-91 Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:35:15 +0000 Matt2theG 91@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ I think the hang up with most of us is with the word (or thought) of intentionality. http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/intersections-1#post-88 Tue, 26 Jul 2011 21:06:52 +0000 jakelimner 88@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ Where does visual arts and 'evangelism' intersect? Here's an interesting quote from Gulshan Esther in the book titled, 'Beyond the Veil' which reveals her philosophy:<br /> <br /> "I try to present Jesus Christ as our Saviour and God our Father as our Creator and Redeemer. When she or anyone else recognizes these basic truths, the rest takes care of itself." http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/art-vs-craft#post-73 Tue, 10 May 2011 01:51:16 +0000 dB 73@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ <p>I have been wrestling with this topic for a while. Here is a link to a good article that has some good follow up conversations via comments.<br /> I would enjoy a similar discussion here, while keeping in mind the shared worldview we maintain.<br /> Why is it important (or not) to make these distinctions?<br /> Would this help others understand the value found in art and art making?<br /> Would the Church value art differently if they had a good idea of this distinction?</p> <p><a href="http://forum.objectivismonline.net/index.php?showtopic=3260" rel="nofollow">http://forum.objectivismonline.net/index.php?showtopic=3260</a></p> <p>Not intrigued by the premise? Here is a quote from Ayn Rand from the article: "Art is the selective re-creation of reality according to an artist's metaphysical value judgments." </p> http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/encouragement-1#post-44 Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:02:54 +0000 dB 44@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ <p>‎"The artist is thus to be like the Israelite spies in the desert, bringing back fruit from the promised land to be tasted in advance . . . Here is the challenge, I believe, for the Christian artist, in whatever sphere: to tell the story of the new world so that people can taste it, and want it, even while acknowledging... the reality of the desert in which we presently live." (N. T. Wright) </p> http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/pricing-your-artwork#post-43 Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:55:00 +0000 dB 43@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ <p>How do you price an original painting or drawing?<br /> —Amy Wilson</p> <p>You’ve just completed a new work and – lucky you! – there’s someone interested in buying it. But how do you price your work in a way that’s fair to both you and your collector?</p> <p>There are very few hard-and-fast rules in the art world, except when it comes to pricing, and you can get yourself into trouble if you don’t follow them. In this article I’ll be discussing these rules and how they relate to pricing original, two-dimensional works of art. If you are looking to price editioned prints, sculpture, video, or other works, this advice isn’t exactly for you, but hopefully it can give you a basis to start understanding how the process works.</p> <p>Rule #1: Prices are based, in part, on medium.</p> <p>Assume for a moment that you are a painter. You probably make a variety of paintings in different sizes on canvas, along with some drawings and studies on paper; occasionally you may make some prints. The very first rule for you to keep in mind is that generally speaking, a painting is going to be more expensive than a drawing, which will be more expensive than a print. Remember that this is a general rule, because the next thing to keep in mind is…</p> <p>Rule #2: Prices are also based, in part, on size.</p> <p>A big drawing is worth more than a little drawing, simple than that. But remember that Rule #1 and Rule #2 have to work hand-in-hand. This means that if you have a drawing that is 30 × 40 and a painting that is 30 × 40, the painting will be priced higher. It also means that if you have two paintings, one 30 × 40 and the other 60 × 80, the latter will sell for more.<br /> Confused yet? It gets trickier.</p> <p>Rule #3: All prices must be relative to one another.</p> <p>If you have a painting that is 30 × 40 and priced at $3,000, and you have another at 40 × 50 for $10,000, and another at 50 × 60 for $100,000, that’s a problem. Your prices have to go up gradually and incrementally, without any large jumps in between sizes. As a barometer, check the price of one of your smaller works against a work nearly twice its size; is the price for the larger one nearly twice what it is for the smaller? It should be, or it should at least be close.</p> <p>Rule #4: Your prices must be consistent.</p> <p>If you price your work at $5,000 each and only sell one or two pieces, you can’t suddenly slash your prices and start charging $200 each for the same work. That’s simply rude and disrespectful of the people who believed in your work enough to plunk down $5,000. You can always raise your prices, but lowering them has to be done very, very carefully if at all. So start out with a modest estimate for the value of your work and if you find you are selling briskly at that price point, you can raise your prices overall. (Also, bear in mind Rules #1 and #2: If you find that 30 × 40 paintings are not selling at $5,000, you can also try and make some 10 × 20 drawings that you can sell for considerably less, say, $800.)</p> <p>Now that you know all the rules, you’re ready to get started figuring out some prices. Sit down in your studio and take out a medium-sized piece of work (this is medium-sized for you – which is to say it’s not your largest painting nor is it your smallest). You will want to charge what you think is reasonable and fair and bear in mind the following:</p> <p>• How much materials cost you (a work made out of pure gold is going to cost more than a pencil drawing – you have to at least make your money back that you put into the work).</p> <p>• How much time was spent creating your average work (if you create 500 paintings a year, they will be cheaper than if you create 3).</p> <p>• What the relative market in your area is (talk to other professional artists to find out what they are successfully charging for their work, and use these numbers as a ballpark. If you don’t know any other artists in your area, go online to look at local galleries and see what their prices are).</p> <p>With all this information gathered, you should be able to figure out the price of your medium-sized work. And now that you know that your 30 × 40 painting is going to sell for $2,000, you should be able to figure out how much to sell that 10 × 12 painting or that 30 × 40 drawing, by referring to the rules I laid out at the beginning.</p> <p>Pricing your work is difficult and is nearly an art itself! It’s never a pleasant process for an artist to sit down and put a price tag on their work. Hopefully by remembering this information, the process can be just a little less painful. Good luck selling your work!</p> <p>Amy Wilson is an artist who has shown her drawings and paintings with Bellwether, PS1, The Drawing Center, The Warhol Museum, the Grolier Club, Josee Bienvenue Gallery, PPOW, and many other spaces. Her work has been reviewed in the NY Times, Art in America, Time Out NY, the Village Voice, as well as other publications. Amy is represented by with Bravin Lee in NYC. She received her BFA from the School of Visual Arts (1995) and her MFA from Yale (1997). She teaches in the Art History, Fine Arts, and Visual and Critical Studies departments at SVA.</p> <p>Source: artBistro.com (<a href="http://www.artbistro.com/education/articles/9311-how-to-price-your-artwork?utm_source=nlet&amp;utm_content=ab_r3_20090717_uexp" rel="nofollow">http://www.artbistro.com/education/articles/9311-how-to-price-your-artwork?utm_source=nlet&amp;utm_content=ab_r3_20090717_uexp</a>) </p> http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/topic/pricing-your-artwork#post-42 Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:53:22 +0000 dB 42@http://www.limnersociety.com/forum/ <p>I get asked often by other artists, "How do you price your artwork?" It is one of the hardest questions to answer because prices are determined by so many factors. I usually have to ask the artist several questions just to begin to find an answer. </p> <p>I recently ran across an article that is helpful to establishing the foundation for finding the answer to this question.</p> <p>However, there is a component missing from this article: the gallery.</p> <p>When you establish prices and begin selling, remember that when and if you decide to sell your work through a gallery, there is a 100% markup. So I often tell people to establish what their bottom line "artist take" will be on the work. Then the actual fair market value of that work is double that number.</p> <p>You can sell your work out of your studio at the "artist take" if you are not represented anywhere in the marketplace. I call this the "studio price." However, once you are selling in the marketplace, it is unfair, and I would argue unethical, to sell at the studio price anymore.</p> <p>Remember this as you read this article... </p>